Narito ang ika-anim na bahagi ng diskusyon sa pagitan ng Katoliko at Iglesia ni Cristo sa pamamagitan ng http://www.pinoyexchange.com
Muli, hinihingi ko na po ang paumanhin ninyo sapagkat di ko po ito isasalin sa wikang Filipino ang kabuuan ng debate.
Moderator’s Finals Remarks
Affirmative’s Rejoinder/Conclusion (Iglesia ni Cristo)
Hypothesis: Apostasy applies only to individuals and not to groups.
Counter-argument: He said the “The Church is the institution that would guide its members “and is “one body… [where] everyone is member of one another”; thus, “cannot be separated”. The church, as an institution and one body, acts as an individual; whatever the brain said, the body will follow. As an institution, the church was led to apostasy. Blind is leading the blind. This is the Principle of Authority.
Counter-argument: We have been defining apostasy but the “gates of Hades” never came up as definition. The guarantee is conditional. The “gates of Hades” is not apostasy. It’s too late for the negative. The “gates of Hades” is about death in the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:14). The church is protected from it.
Facts/Evidences: His own opinion
Counter-argument: Jesus’s birthday is without specific date; therefore, Jesus wasn’t born? The burnt house is burnt even though the exact time the fire ended isn’t known.
Facts/Evidences: His own opinion
Counter-argument: The Catholic Encyclopedia said “…before the schism… the Roman See was already the Apostolic See par excellence, not only in the West but also in the East.” And “The authoritative acts of the popes,… are styled acts of the Holy or Apostolic See.”.
Counter-argument: The negative failed to connect the kingdom to first century church.
The fourth kingdom, divided kingdom, is the Catholic Church, a divided church. The fourth king is the Pope who spoke against God and the verse said “The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.”
The negative agreed that there was apostasy of great magnitude in the church. But he forgot that he also argued that the “Jesus Christ guarantee” is unconditional. If unconditional, then the guarantee must be in effect no matter what this great magnitude or number of people did. They are supposedly part of the body and thus, any unconditional guarantee must trickle down to them. Yet, this great number of people apostatized, he said. His argument simply doesn’t make sense.
By making those two arguments, the negative was implying that the apostasy wasn’t complete – that there were remnants – either the Eastern Orthodox Church or those few people left. However, he forgot that both were under the authority of the Pope as their leader or head. Whatever the head said, people follow. If the brain has cancer, the whole body is affected. He can’t say that the forearm is still good. It just won’t function well if the brain is damaged. Thus, when the church leadership was apostatized, the church was led astray completely.
The Church committed adultery with Paganism and Roman Emperors
The Apostles warned that after their departure or death; savage wolves will not spare the flock (Acts 20:29), which is the church (v28). Thus, the history of apostasy began. From 2nd century to 3rd century, the doctrines of the devil had been slowly creeping into the church. The fourth century was the climatic period of apostasy. Greek spirits prevailed over the church. The church committed adultery with the Roman Emperor and forgot about the true God. Trinity was introduced. Papacy gained more power. Papacy had control of both East and West.
The Jesus Christ guarantee was voided
The first century church was completely apostatized. As an institution, it was led to believe in philosophies of man – Greek Spirits e.g. Platonic Trinity. Doctrines of demons were introduced. The gospel was altered. Christ’s guarantee was voided.
The Pope, the man of lawlessness and Catholic Church, the prostitute
The negative, in taking a chance to recover, introduced the kingdom that will never be destroyed. He failed to link this kingdom to the first century church. He can’t because this kingdom will be built by God AFTER apostasy. The fourth kingdom, the apostate kingdom, will come first. In Daniel 7:24-25:
After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
For time, times and half a time, the holy people of God have been under the spell of Satan, through the Pope [man of lawlessness, fourth king, spoke against Most High] and under the Catholic Church [Prostitute of Babylon, the fourth kingdom, kingdom divided].
Time, times and half a time is a long period of time. It is half of the total dispensation of the Christian period which was divided into seven seals, which can subject of future discussion.
God was exhorting all of those who have been deceived
To all Catholics: Come out of her, my people! – Rev. 18:4
To the Protestants: Escape, you who live in Daughter of Babylon—Zech 2:7
I came out of her. But where should we go? Christ never left us alone. He had “other sheep”, a third group from a far place and a far time – The Church of Christ – the placeholder for those who will live in the everlasting kingdom that will never be destroyed.
May the Lord God bless us all!